{"id":363,"date":"2017-09-25T11:41:22","date_gmt":"2017-09-25T14:41:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/\/?post_type=avada_portfolio&#038;p=363"},"modified":"2023-12-06T02:29:56","modified_gmt":"2023-12-06T01:29:56","slug":"zaffaroni-interview","status":"publish","type":"avada_portfolio","link":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"ZAFFARONI | Interview"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-1 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-0 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-modal modal fade modal-1 zaffaroni\" tabindex=\"-1\" role=\"dialog\" aria-labelledby=\"modal-heading-1\" aria-hidden=\"true\" style=\"--awb-border-color:#ebebeb;--awb-background:#f6f6f6;\"><div class=\"modal-dialog modal-lg\" role=\"document\"><div class=\"modal-content fusion-modal-content\"><div class=\"modal-header\"><button class=\"close\" type=\"button\" data-dismiss=\"modal\" aria-hidden=\"true\" aria-label=\"Close\">&times;<\/button><h3 class=\"modal-title\" id=\"modal-heading-1\" data-dismiss=\"modal\" aria-hidden=\"true\">Eugenio Ra\u00fal Zaffaroni<\/h3><\/div><div class=\"modal-body fusion-clearfix\">\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Judge of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights (CIDH). Former Minister of the Supreme Court of Justice of the Nation. Doctor of Juridical and Social Sciences. Vice President of the International Criminal Law Association. Vice President of the International Society of Social Defense. Secretary General and founder of the Latin American Association of Criminal Law and Criminology (ALPEC). Presided over ILANUD (United Nations Latin American Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders) with headquarters in San Jos\u00e9 de Costa Rica. Former Comptroller of the National Institute against Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racism (INADI). Author of more than 20 books. Doctor Honoris Causa in more than 30 universities from different countries. Winner of TheStockholmPrize in Criminology.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-2 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-background-position:left top;--awb-border-sizes-top:0px;--awb-border-sizes-bottom:0px;--awb-border-sizes-left:0px;--awb-border-sizes-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-padding-top:20px;--awb-padding-bottom:20px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-1 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column fusion-flex-align-self-flex-start fusion-column-no-min-height\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:0px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-1 sep-underline sep-solid fusion-title-center fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-two\"><h2 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-center fusion-responsive-typography-calculated\" style=\"margin:0;--fontSize:25;--minFontSize:25;line-height:1.5;\">Interview with Eugenio Ra\u00fal Zaffaroni<\/h2><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-1\"><p style=\"text-align: center\">By Agustina Brandi, David Gonz\u00e1lez, Eugenia Dest\u00e9fanis and Sof\u00eda Kolic.<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-separator fusion-full-width-sep\" style=\"align-self: center;margin-left: auto;margin-right: auto;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;width:100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"fusion-image-element \" style=\"text-align:center;--awb-caption-title-font-family:var(--h2_typography-font-family);--awb-caption-title-font-weight:var(--h2_typography-font-weight);--awb-caption-title-font-style:var(--h2_typography-font-style);--awb-caption-title-size:var(--h2_typography-font-size);--awb-caption-title-transform:var(--h2_typography-text-transform);--awb-caption-title-line-height:var(--h2_typography-line-height);--awb-caption-title-letter-spacing:var(--h2_typography-letter-spacing);\"><span class=\" fusion-imageframe imageframe-none imageframe-1 hover-type-none\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2017\/09\/Zaffaroni.jpg\" alt class=\"img-responsive\"\/><\/span><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-3 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-2 fusion_builder_column_1_6 1_6 fusion-flex-column fusion-no-small-visibility\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:16.666666666667%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:11.52%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:11.52%;--awb-width-medium:16.666666666667%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:11.52%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:11.52%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-3 fusion_builder_column_2_3 2_3 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:66.666666666667%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:2.88%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:2.88%;--awb-width-medium:66.666666666667%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:2.88%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:2.88%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><style type='text\/css'>.reading-box-container-1 .element-bottomshadow:before,.reading-box-container-1 .element-bottomshadow:after{opacity:0.7;}<\/style><div class=\"fusion-reading-box-container reading-box-container-1 fusion-animated\" style=\"--awb-title-color:#333333;--awb-margin-top:0px;--awb-margin-bottom:84px;\" data-animationType=\"fadeInUp\" data-animationDuration=\"0.5\" data-animationOffset=\"top-into-view\"><div class=\"reading-box reading-box-center element-bottomshadow\" style=\"background-color:#ecf0f5;border-width:1px;border-color:#f6f6f6;border-top-width:3px;border-top-color:var(--primary_color);border-style:solid;\"><h2>EUGENIO RA\u00daL ZAFFARONI<\/h2><div class=\"reading-box-additional fusion-reading-box-additional\"><div class=\"fusion-aligncenter\"><a class=\"fusion-button button-flat fusion-button-default-size button-custom fusion-button-default button-1 fusion-button-default-span fusion-button-default-type\" 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fusion-flex-column fusion-no-small-visibility\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:16.666666666667%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:11.52%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:11.52%;--awb-width-medium:16.666666666667%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:11.52%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:11.52%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-5 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div style=\"text-align:right;\"><a class=\"fusion-button button-flat button-small button-custom fusion-button-default button-2 fusion-button-default-span fusion-button-default-type\" style=\"--button_accent_color:#333333;--button_border_color:#333333;--button_accent_hover_color:#333333;--button_border_hover_color:#333333;--button_border_width-top:1px;--button_border_width-right:1px;--button_border_width-bottom:1px;--button_border_width-left:1px;--button-border-radius-top-left:0;--button-border-radius-top-right:0;--button-border-radius-bottom-right:0;--button-border-radius-bottom-left:0;--button_gradient_top_color:rgba(181,41,41,0);--button_gradient_bottom_color:rgba(181,41,41,0);--button_gradient_top_color_hover:rgba(0,0,0,0.3);--button_gradient_bottom_color_hover:rgba(0,0,0,0.3);\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/12\/ZAFFARONI-Interview.pdf\"><i class=\"fa-download fas button-icon-left\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i><span class=\"fusion-button-text\">PDF<\/span><\/a><\/div><div style=\"text-align:right;\"><a class=\"fusion-button button-flat button-small button-default fusion-button-default button-3 fusion-button-default-span fusion-button-default-type\" style=\"--button-border-radius-top-left:0;--button-border-radius-top-right:0;--button-border-radius-bottom-right:0;--button-border-radius-bottom-left:0;\" target=\"_self\" href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-entrevista\/\"><span class=\"fusion-button-text\">VERSI\u00d3N EN ESPA\u00d1OL<\/span><\/a><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-4 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-background-position:left top;--awb-border-sizes-top:0px;--awb-border-sizes-bottom:0px;--awb-border-sizes-left:0px;--awb-border-sizes-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-padding-top:0px;--awb-padding-bottom:20px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-6 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column fusion-flex-align-self-flex-start fusion-column-no-min-height\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:0px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><style type='text\/css'>.reading-box-container-2 .element-bottomshadow:before,.reading-box-container-2 .element-bottomshadow:after{opacity:0.7;}<\/style><div class=\"fusion-reading-box-container reading-box-container-2\" style=\"--awb-title-color:#333333;--awb-margin-top:0px;--awb-margin-bottom:84px;\"><div class=\"reading-box\" style=\"background-color:#ecf0f5;border-width:1px;border-color:#f6f6f6;border-style:solid;\"><div class=\"reading-box-additional\">\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><em>Zaffaroni argues that the criminal issue is a problem that is part of a global framework where the deepest core of the future form of coexistence\u2014and even the very fate of humanity in the coming years\u2014is at play.<\/em><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><em>His thesis that states commit mass homicides led him to say that \u201c[w]hat has been verified is only that from time immemorial enemies are invented that are sacrificed, that a new enemy is then invented and a new sacrifice is produced, that it is more clearly and dramatically noticeable as modern civilization planetarizes itself and technology advances and each new sacrifice implies new mass homicides.\u201d These concepts earned Zaffaroni the\u00a0<\/em>Stockholm Prize<em>\u00a0in 2009. He was the first non-English-speaking nominee to be awarded this prize, the highest in the field of criminology worldwide.<\/em><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><em>The issue of sacrifices is one Zaffaroni often addresses in his papers and books. For this reason, LAPSO requested an interview with him, knowing that the dialogue between law and psychoanalysis has always been fruitful, even considering the particular and dissimilar perspectives of each field.<\/em><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><em>In June 2017, Zaffaroni welcomed LAPSO\u2019s Editorial Secretariat to his home. After walking across a garden with dense vegetation, we arrived at one of the most emblematic city block interiors in Barrio Flores, which houses an enormous mythical library with over 30,000 books. That was were\u2014over a cup of coffee\u2014the following conversation took place:<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-clearfix\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-5 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-background-position:left top;--awb-border-sizes-top:0px;--awb-border-sizes-bottom:0px;--awb-border-sizes-left:0px;--awb-border-sizes-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-padding-top:20px;--awb-padding-bottom:20px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-7 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column fusion-flex-align-self-flex-start fusion-column-no-min-height\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:0px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-2\"><p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>LAPSO: In several of your books, you have referred to \u201csacrifices\u201d. When are these produced?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Zaffaroni:\u00a0<\/strong>We should begin by asking ourselves: What do we understand by sacrifices? Europeans always use the\u00a0<em>Shoah\u00a0<\/em>as an example, but that\u2019s European.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Let\u2019s go back in time to the 16th century: that\u2019s when people started speaking of race. It made no sense before that. Only after the emergence of colonialism does it make sense to speak of it. Although illuminism appeared later, it had the hidden face of colonialism and slaveholding, because without colonialism and slaveholding there would have been no raw materials or methods of payment for the emergence of the European bourgeoisie. When this appeared, the first struggles\u2014as well as the phenomena we\u2019re referring to here\u2014occurred. After they settled in, we can find Spencerian biological reductionism, and this is the hidden face adopted by the illuminism and liberalism of those centuries (18th and beginning of the 19th). Of course, sacrifices were not performed in the same place; they couldn\u2019t be seen on the streets, but millions occurred.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Later on in time, the\u00a0<em>Shoah\u00a0<\/em>took place in Europe. One may wonder how a country such as Germany, where there were outstanding intellectuals, suddenly became involved in that. But Hitler was no magician; he came to fill a void that those German intellectuals had created with romanticism. Irrational thinking was generated. One day Hitler arrived and we may say it was all about the glorification of irrationalism, at a very special moment in a country humiliated after having experienced an illusion. But the Germans were as racist as the English, except that there were two versions: one was Spencerian and evolutionary (a pure racism based on a gross biologism), while the other was involutional. However, they were not very different to all intents and purposes. The problem is European racism, which is paying for colonial crimes today. The Mediterranean is, at present, the new Arizona desert. European terrorism is produced by Europeans themselves. It\u2019s evident: you\u2019re born in a country, grow up, go to school, etc., and you\u2019re permanently segregated, permanently humiliated. They do not let you become a part of it. I\u2019m not saying this happens to everybody, but some personalities are more vulnerable, more fragile, and they suddenly \u201cflare up\u201d.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">There are other types of racism, with different variables, but they\u2019re all intertwined with one another.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: From psychoanalysis, that\u2019s what we call the forms of segregation that may take on racist overtones, that is, segregation by race, by religion, etc.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, all the forms discrimination may take, but which we find related to one another. As a general rule, every racist ideology accompanies the rest. In each paradigm of this nature everything goes together: contempt for the disabled, eugenics, misogyny, etc. These issues have settled in, but they still prevail, a bit on the sly. There are people who have learned there are things that shouldn\u2019t be said, but they still agree with them.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: When does this become legitimate?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:<\/strong>\u00a0There are different stages. There\u2019s a diffuse stage, such as hurling insults to a certain group or population in a soccer stadium. There\u2019s a second stage, a more organic one; that is, there are publications, newspapers, articles, books. And there\u2019s a third stage that takes the form of state policy. They are different stages by means of which it settles in.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Locally, we may say that our Republic\u2019s oligarchies were racist, as well as the Peruvian\u00a0<em>patricianship<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn1\" name=\"_ftnref1\">[1]<\/a>\u00a0peruano, the Mexican\u00a0<em>Porfiriato<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn2\" name=\"_ftnref2\">[2]<\/a>, and Brazil\u2019s\u00a0<em>Rep\u00fablica Velha<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn3\" name=\"_ftnref3\">[3]<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L- Could we think of present-day sacrifices?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z-\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, Haiti, a country they are letting die. But we need to think what sense is given to the expression of sacrifice, because, for example, we may also refer to institutional violence. It\u2019s not just about homicides, but if we think about the colonialism affecting the \u201chuman right to development\u201d<a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn4\" name=\"_ftnref4\">[4]<\/a>, I believe there\u2019s an ongoing \u201cdrip, drip, drip genocide\u201d<a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn5\" name=\"_ftnref5\">[5]<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">That is, let\u2019s think of the homicides, the traffic deaths due to inadequate roads that can\u2019t keep up with the increasing number of vehicles, occupational safety, deficient health campaigns, discriminatory health care. If we add this all up, we\u2019ll get a mountain-high pile of corpses a year. Strange things are happening. The figures are saying strange things.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Brazil is an example of a very strange phenomenon. The country has 700,000 prisoners and 600,000 unexecuted arrest warrants. Every time a prison cell is left vacant, one of those people is arrested and put in jail. Obviously, that\u2019s a source of human selection.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">So if we add up the number of prisoners and the number of people with unexecuted arrest warrants, we\u2019re talking about 1.3 million people. It\u2019s a very strange situation where the Judiciary issues arrest warrants without taking prison capacity into consideration. It\u2019s the only country with such a compartmentalized criminal justice system. Both the people who still haven\u2019t been incarcerated and those already in prison total 1.3 million. Suppose there are about 700,000 that are being tried in court but not yet in prison, at least with arrest warrants. We have two million people involved in criminal proceedings, that is, the equivalent of half the population of Uruguay. One out of one hundred Brazilians is linked to a criminal process. Each has a family, around five or six people who are in close contact. That means there are five or six people who, in addition to that one person, become familiarized with the issue of criminal justice, courts, prison. That is, the issue is trivialized. They are 10 or 12 million people, the equivalent of a fourth of Argentina\u2019s population. So then it\u2019s a very strange phenomenon. Something is not working well in a society like that.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: Is there a relationship between \u201cdrip, drip, drip genocide\u201d and the economic system?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Definitely, there\u2019s been a turn in capitalism, a change in the concentration of capital as a result of which the financial system prevails over the productive system and is devouring it. I don\u2019t know what the outcome of that will be. There\u2019s a reaction of the productive system on the part of Trump and I believe they\u2019re going to fire him any minute for this reason, not because he talks nonsense, but because he\u2019s affecting financial capital. When he says, \u201cI want products made in the country; you have to bring this work back to this country,\u201d he\u2019s putting himself on the side of productive capital. By contrast, the others say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to make products in China or India with slave labor.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">I don\u2019t know where capitalism is headed for; it may end in a catastrophe. We\u2019re also witnessing this shift in Latin America when we see transnational corporations taking over politics\u2014well, I mean in the world. There\u2019s always been a relationship between politics and the\u00a0<em>establishment<\/em>, but rather than a relationship, now it\u2019s about the\u00a0<em>establishment\u00a0<\/em>devouring politics.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">Thus, we can see that corporations have become the true power, since they have the advantage over politics of being able to move horizontally. In contrast, politics cannot do that because it\u2019s evidently local.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: On the basis of this turn of capitalism, are new phenomena of hatred and violence emerging along with the shift?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, that is, the economic plan of a financial capitalism results in a 30\/70 society: 30% included in that society and 70% excluded from that society. And such a society isn\u2019t viable without repression. It\u2019s containment of exclusion, but there are different ways of containing it\u2014some more and others less violent\u2014but all the\u00a0<em>populacherista<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn6\" name=\"_ftnref6\">[6]<\/a>,<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">demagogic, and vindictive claim is intended to strengthen the repression system, which plays that role. Nobody cares about the corpses or the dead people, so much so that they don\u2019t care that no investigation is being done. There\u2019s no field criminology, nobody wants to know what\u2019s going on, so what\u2019s relevant is the media question. The concentrated media are helping to serve a purpose.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">I\u2019ve come to the sad conclusion that nobody cares. I believe nobody cares about homicide in general, either. Tell me what investigations are being done about homicides in Argentina or how much is being invested in them. Who is killed? What time are certain crimes committed? Who are they? What\u2019s going on? We don\u2019t know anything and no investment is being made either. In countries where investigations are done and investment is made, the effects are different, but I\u2019m talking about Great Britain or Canada, for example.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: Why isn\u2019t there field criminology?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Because nobody cares about reality. They\u2019re actually concerned with its political and economic manipulation. If there were field criminology, we might look into reality and see what we can do. More vulnerable groups are spotted and there needs to be more communication; communication needs to be oriented toward them; they need to be protected differently. In every crime there are groups who are more vulnerable than others. Take swindle, for example; someone who is not used to doing business is more vulnerable than someone who runs a business. There\u2019s a whole current of victimological studies working on that. This research explores who is at a higher risk of victimization. We have to ask ourselves: who is more vulnerable to victimization?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: Taking up Lacan, Miller says that racism is \u201chatred of the\u00a0<em>jouissance\u00a0<\/em>of the Other: the particular way in which the Other enjoys (<em>jouit<\/em>) is hated. How can this be legislated?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>I don\u2019t think law can solve that. The function of law is very limited.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">I consider that proposing the aggravation of \u201chate crimes\u201d<a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\">[7]<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">is correct, but the fact that it seems correct to me doesn\u2019t mean the issue will be solved with that. \u201cHate crimes\u201d are characterized by being crimes where the individual victim doesn\u2019t matter; what matters is a certain group; it\u2019s a crime against a minority, which is different from femicide, because in these cases what matters is the victim in her particularity. Both things are mixed up and people think it\u2019s a \u201chate crime\u201d, but a femicide is much worse.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: You say there are sacrifices that play certain roles. What would these be?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, generally speaking, I understand that it depends on the context, but basically I\u2019d say that it\u2019s the role of providing identity to someone who does not have it. I do not know who I am, but I know I\u2019m not the black person, I\u2019m not the fat person, I know I\u2019m not this or that, I\u2019m not the gay person, I\u2019m not the whore. I put masks on others to create my own. I don\u2019t identify myself for being but for what I\u2019m not.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: Why can\u2019t the sacrificed object be any object?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>It has to play a role and, according to the circumstances, it has to be someone; it can\u2019t stop being human, but a different human, and we continue from there. It depends on each historical and cultural circumstance. Candidates aren\u2019t the same in all circumstances, because if we say that the sacrificed object is a different human, we have to know that \u201cthat which is different\u201d can be everything. From the outside, one does not easily contemplate it. In my opinion, Ireland was an example. I didn\u2019t understand anything, but I didn\u2019t understand it because, according to what I observed, they were all the same. I can understand that the Arabs fight against the Israelis\u2014it is wrong\u2014but it is understood because there are marked differences between them that we all know about.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">In Ireland, after several hearings, I asked a person, \u201cHow do you distinguish yourselves from others?\u201d They answered that they differed in the clubs they went to, and so on. I told them that they are the same and they replied, \u201cNo, no, they colonized us (the Scots).\u201d And I wonder when that was. It was in the 1700\u2019s and it meant that they killed one another until 10 years ago. The city of Belfast is divided by a wall. If a taxi driver made a mistake and drove behind the other side of the wall, they would kill him. It\u2019s true; some are Anglicans and the other Catholics, but both religions are very close to each other. This shows that, in order to make others an object of sacrifice, we don\u2019t need very radical or very noticeable differences, another language or another religion.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: You said that the role of sacrifice is to provide an identity to something that doesn\u2019t have it.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Of course, if I need to define myself for what I\u2019m not, it\u2019s because I\u2019m living in a rather inauthentic way. I\u2019m concealing a lack of existence. The more fragile the identity of someone is, the more prone it is to give masks to others. That\u2019s what explains that until yesterday someone could talk to their neighbor and today they hate them as if they were no longer the neighbor, but rather an enemy, a collective enemy. The individuality of the neighbor disappeared.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: You have argued that, frequently, punitive power generates more genocides. When does that occur?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, my argument is that if it goes uncontrolled, it\u2019s a genocide. This means that the criminal justice system in modern societies tries to channel vengeance rationally. For this reason, I consider that punitive power never played the role it says it plays; it was always used for something else. It has been reestablished for about a thousand years. The first excuse was Satan and the girls, then heretics, then syphilis, then alcoholism, then drugs, then international terrorism. It never solved anything; none of these problems was solved with punitive power. But on the pretext of all these emergencies, they killed a few million people. In that sense punitive power is a historical scam, the biggest scam in history. But it\u2019s a political fact and it exists. War is also a political fact; don\u2019t ask me to justify it, but it\u2019s there.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">What I know is that, in the immediate future, we have to contain it. When I raise this question, I think of limiting or containing the waves of vengeance, of exhausting the possibilities of the models for effective conflict resolution, and of denouncing the techniques of neutralizing mass homicides. Because, of course, I can quietly sit down to think about our society in a caf\u00e9 in Paris, but if we are in Central America with bullets passing over our heads, I think we\u2019ll have a different opinion. In Guatemala, when you go to a fancy restaurant, you find a locker with a sign saying, \u201cLeave your weapon here.\u201d In that case, we don\u2019t have time to think about society without punitive power. It\u2019s awful.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: In an interview, you said that punitive power is a \u201cfalse God\u201d.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:<\/strong>\u00a0A long time ago, I was at a congress in Vienna with the late Ruth Morris, a Canadian sociologist and abolitionist. I finished my lecture and went to listen to another presentation. I was sitting next to her and I asked her, \u201cRuth, am I missing something or are they discussing nuclear criminality?\u201d She told me that, indeed, they were discussing that. The Soviet Union still existed; it was before the 90\u2019s. My answer was, \u201cBut these people won\u2019t have realized that if there were nuclear criminality, there\u2019d none of us left, not even one who could take that kind of criminality to court.\u201d And she said, \u201cNo, because they\u2019re religious. For them, punitive power is God; they believe that he can solve all problems.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: You stated that the\u00a0<em>establishment<\/em>\u00a0devours politics. Can we think that the dimension of that which is political disappears?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>That which is political will never disappear. That which is political is the government of the polis and every society needs a government, a leadership. This doesn\u2019t mean that you need a f\u00fchrer. What happens is that today, that which is financial prevails over that which is political. Then a society run by financial capital\u2026 in our case, in Latin America, it\u2019s one more stage of colonialism. Clearly, it\u2019s an advanced phase of colonialism. It\u2019s not neocolonialism\u2014that\u2019s over\u2014but a financial colonialism, a superior and different phase of colonialism. I think that national security dictatorships put an end to neocolonialism, and\u00a0 since then there\u2019s been a different stage we don\u2019t know where it ends. The world is experiencing a very complex time.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: For several years, you were one of the justices of the Supreme Court of Argentina. What did this experience mean for you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>You see power more closely; you\u2019re more aware of the structural defects it has. You experience it. And yes, indeed, our Judiciary has a disastrous structure. There is no other Judiciary in the democratic world with this structure. Power is concentrated and under pressure. It\u2019s dangerous, very dangerous.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: And is it possible to take individual action within that structure?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>Of course, you can do things. At the same time, you note that the operation of this structure should be reformed. I hadn\u2019t had such a direct experience until I was there\u2014to begin with, very serious things. As a justice of the Supreme Court, you have to rule on different matters. And no one knows about all matters. It\u2019s not that I\u2019m scared to delegate. If the Judiciary does not delegate, nothing can be decided. The point is that you can give someone instructions and delegate the writing of a sentence to them. Then you can read and correct it. However, something very different happens; that is, you look at the person who actually wrote the sentence and say, \u201cAre you sure of what you wrote?\u201d Forcing someone to do this is just not appropriate. No one can know about everything. They may know about just one or two subjects. For example, in matters of taxation I need to call an accountant. So when you see that things work this way, then you say, \u201cThere\u2019s something wrong here that needs to be fixed.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>L: Going back to the question of sacrifices, what do you think are the objects of sacrifice today?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/portfolio-items\/zaffaroni-interview\/#_ftn7\" name=\"_ftnref7\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\"><strong>Z:\u00a0<\/strong>There are different types. In Brazil, deadly police violence is on the rise. The percentage of black people being killed is increasing. Statistics indicate so. But there are others. Refugees in Europe, of course. There is an important number, but what happens is that we trivialize it. We drink white coffee and eat croissants while we\u2019re watching it on television in the morning. There is a kind of desensitization. Societies wake up when catastrophes occur. As they occur, people wake up. That\u2019s what happened with the\u00a0<em>Shoah<\/em>, not with the colonial genocides of Africa or with the Armenian genocide. But when the Europeans saw the\u00a0<em>Shoah<\/em>\u00a0was taking place there, they realized that they all shared the same lack of melanin and they were frightened. That\u2019s when they awoke and wrote the Declaration of Human Rights, not because they reasoned so but because they were afraid. Progress is made on the basis of fear, which is why I say that it is catastrophes that awaken society.<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-2 sep-underline sep-solid fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-one\"><h1 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left fusion-responsive-typography-calculated\" style=\"margin:0;--fontSize:30;line-height:1.4;\"><\/h1><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-3\"><p style=\"text-align: justify\">[1]\u00a0<em>Patricianship<\/em>\u00a0refers to the high classes or aristocracy in a social system.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[2]\u00a0The Mexican\u00a0<em>Porfiriato\u00a0<\/em>was the government regime between 1876 and 1911, under the military control of Porfirio D\u00edaz, characterized not only by Mexico\u2019s structural modifications, but also by the concentration of power and the marked inequality between social classes.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[3]\u00a0<em>Rep\u00fablica Velha<\/em>\u00a0or\u00a0<em>First Republic\u00a0<\/em>refers to the period in Brazilian history between 1889 and 1930, that is, when Brazil was declared a Republic. This period was characterized by a change in the form of government (although the modifications introduced did not result in considerable changes for the vast majority of the population), the concentration of power in the hands of landowners, and corruption among the elites.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[4]\u00a0In his writings, Zaffaroni holds that the \u201chuman right to development\u201d is a priority human right. There is a theoretical division that presents three generations of human rights, the first referring to individual rights; the second referring to social rights; and the third referring to third-generation human rights, where the \u201chuman right to development\u201d is located. Zaffaroni considers that the \u201chuman right to development\u201d is the most frequently injured right in Latin America, for example, and this fact is directly related to institutional violence and \u201cdrip, drip, drip genocide\u201d.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[5]\u00a0In\u00a0<em>Muertes anunciadas<\/em>\u00a0(<em>Foretold Deaths,\u00a0<\/em>2016), based on the research by El\u00edas Carranza, Zaffaroni points out that there are two high rates in Latin America: on the one hand, Latin America has the highest homicide rates in the world and, on the other, it also has the highest Gini coefficients. Zaffaroni\u2019s theoretical elaboration on \u201cdrip, drip, drip genocide\u201d is related to those high rates and to the hypothesis that, in addition to the institutional violence exercised by the state, there is an increase in what he calls \u201cforetold deaths\u201d or \u201cdrip, drip, drip genocide\u201d. In the same text, Zaffaroni says, \u201cwe have the feeling that the models of exclusionary society are no longer concerned with killing by means of their autonomous law enforcement agencies; they do it by fomenting contradictions and conflicts among the socially excluded themselves. They manage to have them kill each other, which absolutely serves their purpose.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[6]\u00a0\u201cPenal\u00a0<em>populacherismo<\/em>\u201d is a phrase coined by Zaffaroni to refer to a variant of what is known as\u00a0<em>v\u00f6lkisch<\/em>. He uses it to differentiate it from political populism. It consists in the political exploitation of discriminatory prejudices. In an interview with Mart\u00edn Granovsky, Dr. Zaffaroni explained that it is all about \u201cbuilding on the worst discriminatory prejudices in a society and delving deeply into them to exploit them politically, whether in search of votes or consensus in the practice of aberrations and uncontrolled punitive power.\u201d Retrieved from\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.pagina12.com.ar\/diario\/elpais\/1-259979-2014-11-16.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify\">[7]\u00a0It is any aggression against a person, a group of people, or their property, motivated by a prejudice against their race, nationality, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, religion, or disability.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-6 fusion-flex-container fusion-parallax-fixed nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-padding-top:10px;--awb-padding-bottom:10px;--awb-background-image:url(&quot;http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2017\/09\/Portada-Lapso-2.jpg&quot;);--awb-background-size:cover;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;background-attachment:fixed;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-8 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"portfolio_category":[],"portfolio_skills":[],"portfolio_tags":[],"class_list":["post-363","avada_portfolio","type-avada_portfolio","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/avada_portfolio\/363","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/avada_portfolio"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/avada_portfolio"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=363"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/avada_portfolio\/363\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1968,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/avada_portfolio\/363\/revisions\/1968"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=363"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"portfolio_category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/portfolio_category?post=363"},{"taxonomy":"portfolio_skills","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/portfolio_skills?post=363"},{"taxonomy":"portfolio_tags","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/matpsil.com\/revista-lapso\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/portfolio_tags?post=363"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}